Light removal techniques: an open question

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Ghost
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Light removal techniques: an open question

Post by Ghost » Fri Nov 06, 2009 6:08 am

Obviously running around shooting out lights is bad for a number of reasons. But since there are exceptions for every rule, let's talk about light removal. Keep in mind that i'm referring to fixed lights, not motion sensor lights, for this thread. motion sensor lights are a different topic altogether, and most people will ignore them anyway as long as they don't see you running by.

Personally, if i know the area where the light in question is located is safe and is unwatched for the moment, i'll simply open up the light fixture, whatever it is, and unscrew the lightbulb a few times. This is something i used to use on occasion while car shopping in areas where a single, bright light was illuminating a few cars i needed to work with. Yes, it may end up drawing attention later, but it ensures that if someone were to drive by or look out a window, they would be looking from a lighter area into a darker one, and thus i would have plenty of time to analyze the situation and react before anyone could figure out i was there. After you're done in the area, you can even screw the bulb back in to further remove evidence of your being there. This is a method i used mainly on pole lamps and porch lights, lights that are low to the ground and not on a motion sensor.

Streetlights are another story altogether. Obviously they must be taken out from a distance, so if you absolutely need to take it out (again, i've never needed to, but i'm sure someone will someday need to) silently with a ranged projectile seems like your best bet. Or is it? This is where my question comes into play. If there aren't other people in the area, and you still felt like you'd need to take it out, then you'd just do so. But if there are people in the area, this is where we run into problems. As soon as you shoot the light, the people in the area would be alerted. So my proposed method is to shoot first at the covering of the light, or the metal near the light - something to draw attention directly to the light. Anyone in the area will hear something ping off the lightpost, and that's where they will look. then you could shoot out the light a few seconds after your first shot. Anyone who was in the area, who was just staring into a light, is now night blind. This gives you a better chance of doing whatever it is you need to do, like escaping a situation you may have been trapped in, or passing through an area you couldn't afford to be seen in.

So does anyone else have methods of removing fixed lights? feel free to share them here, or just things to keep in mind if you ever need to take out a light. Just a note, however - i've been opping for over six years, and i can count the number of lights i've needed to disable on one hand, with fingers left over. this is not splinter cell, disabling lights (through any method) is something that should only be done when you can find no other way to get through or past an area undetected.
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Re: Light removal techniques: an open question

Post by Psychlonic » Fri Nov 06, 2009 6:46 am

To be honest, I agree with you that it's not really something that's important in most situations. The light can be worked around and doing so can even draw less attention. I hadn't thought much farther than simply busting the bulb somehow if it needed to be done.

NBK2000 from RogueSci had the idea of making this weird, gadgety hood thing that slipped over the light and could be removed, but the idea isn't much better than just shooting it with something.

The biggest problem lies in the obvious nature of turning the light off - if anyone is around it's hard to not notice the sudden disappearance of the light. If said people know that light isn't supposed to turn off, as with the case of a street light or owners and their personal lights - they're going to at least look in that direction if not investigate personally.

I think the only way of going truly "unnoticed" would require excessive work, practice, and be extremely dangerous: kill the power to the entire area. That way, whatever individual light you want off is not going to be an anomaly that draws attention to itself and nothing else. Obviously this is impractical and not worth discussing further.

Here's a dumb ass, borderline kewl shot in the dark (no pun intended) : You ever seen those "ion guns" that light up bulbs from a distance by basically charging them wirelessly? I don't know anything about them, how they work, how effective they are, or if they're even legit, but if the concept works maybe one could build one to overcharge bulbs so that they burn out immediately. These things seem to run fairly cheap, so I see no reason why any dedicated operative couldn't build their own given enough time and basic electronics knowledge.
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Re: Light removal techniques: an open question

Post by Ghost » Fri Nov 06, 2009 6:58 am

Lol, i have never heard of those before. To be honest this was more a thread to provide some conversation fodder than for any real purpose, as stated above.

As for cutting power to a large area - one of my operations from a while ago took me into an underground room that served as a hub for electrical distrubution between a few local developments. Even managed to snap a few pics on a deactivated cell phone i had with me for that purpose. I think they were posted here before, but meh, ill throw a few up anyway. Seems sort of foolish to use your water pumping station as a hub for electrical stuff, but i guess whoever set things up that way wasn't thinking about security.

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Re: Light removal techniques: an open question

Post by Psychlonic » Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:06 am

Guess that explains the warning signs on the ones I've seen. I had found one I was going to hit up but decided not to, maybe I should have after all. Good to know.

Conversation fodder or not, I'm looking into the ion idea as we speak. Unfortunately, what I've found will likely scare most people away. First off, what we're looking at is called the "ion ray gun", and I still haven't read too much about it yet but it's dealing with high voltage (100,000+ Volts) especially at the ranges you'd need to use one on an operation. While I've read several confirmations that it can indeed light a bulb at a distance, it's still up for question whether or not it can burn out one that's already powered and if so, how much power does it need to supply for this to happen?
Finally, can the device be powered with conventional, portable means. I'm going to make a prediction that the answer will be no and that the idea is as impractical as it initially sounds.
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Re: Light removal techniques: an open question

Post by Xanatos » Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:35 am

Slingshots, dart rifles, air rifles and possibly others should make light-removal decently quiet. Lightbulbs do break on their own, if someone sees one pop chances are they'll pass it off as a random occurance. More than one light failure though and they might get suspicious.
Last edited by Xanatos on Tue May 25, 2010 6:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Light removal techniques: an open question

Post by stealththief » Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:46 pm

If you can, mess it up in the day time do that, no one will notice. Other than that, I would throw a bag over the fixture or bulb and depending on where you are you can just a have a piece of paper that says "broken" on it. This obviously won't work at residences but in most other places people will assume it's someone else's job to to fix it up. These are all theory, none have been field tested as I usually dodge lights or sprint through them.
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Re: Light removal techniques: an open question

Post by Psychlonic » Sat Dec 12, 2009 9:19 am

I'd like to keep this topic active as it's a pressing issue and we still haven't come up with a clear solution. It may seem that there is no uncompromising solution, but innovation is what this forum is all about, no? There's gotta be a way.

I looked in the ion ray gun concept, and the idea is just too impractical. The only reasonable idea I could come up with is making one that feeds off standard electrical outlets, meaning you have to hope one is nearby. The problems don't stop with finding an outlet, though. You have to bring a big power cord along, and you have a create the device in the first place - a feat requiring some skill with electronics and soldering that I can't see most people even trying to attempt.
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Re: Light removal techniques: an open question

Post by Captain Winky » Sat Dec 12, 2009 2:01 pm

call me an idiot if you will,
but did anyone think of Electromagnets?
any experiences with those?
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Re: Light removal techniques: an open question

Post by Psychlonic » Sat Dec 12, 2009 9:57 pm

-cleaned-
Last edited by Psychlonic on Sun Oct 22, 2023 8:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Light removal techniques: an open question

Post by Ghost » Tue Dec 15, 2009 5:08 am

Aside from situations where you can't reach the bulb, i've found it much easier to check the area, make sure no one is around at the moment, sprint to the light, open the cover, and partially unscrew the bulb. Quieter than breaking it, leaves no mess, and people can reasonably write it off to coincidence if you can't get back and screw it back into place.

Not only does this seem more in line with night ops philosophy, but it makes the technique much more usable on operations. I mentioned it already, but in most cases if you're willing to break a lightbulb, unscrewing is also an option. a better one.

But like Psychlonic said - just working around the area is probably your best bet altogether.
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Re: Light removal techniques: an open question

Post by The Atomic Fishy » Tue May 25, 2010 6:00 am

why destroy the light why not just cover or dim the light source?
maybe paint balls filled with asphalt emulsion?
just an idea

maybe we are looking at it wrong?
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Re: Light removal techniques: an open question

Post by Urgon » Tue May 25, 2010 7:33 am

AVE...

Ion guns? Unworkable. Mostly because of inverse-square law. If the distance is x, than you need y amount of energy. But for 2x you will need 4y of energy. For 3x it's 8y. 4x=16y, and so on and so forth. And ionization works only when humidity is low.
One may try to use microwave gun based on magnetron vacuum tube. It can be done to be almost portable. For power supply just use gel battery from UPS and step-up converter(SMPS) that will give at least 2kV. For short time operation it will be enough. Will it work? Probably yes. But again there is inverse-square law...

If it is possible to gain access to the connection boxes of street lights and you know, you will use this particular road often, then you can make fairly simple circuit with RF receiver, microcontroller and relay(and cellphone charger as a power supply). Install your control box in every street light on your way, and you can use simple transmitter to either dim the lights or turn them completely off. By using microcontrollers you can be sure that your boxes won't react on random signals. You can set specific ID codes for each device in order to selective turning them on and off...
Other idea I have is to use triac instead of relay to short circuit the light. If you install it before the breaker of the street light, you'll probably eliminate all street lights in this area(depending on location of main breaker)...
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Re: Light removal techniques: an open question

Post by Psychlonic » Wed Jun 02, 2010 4:41 am

Welcome to last year.
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Re: Light removal techniques: an open question

Post by Firaku » Thu Jun 03, 2010 8:38 am

Xanatos wrote:Slingshots, dart rifles, air rifles and possibly others should make light-removal decently quiet. Lightbulbs do break on their own, if someone sees one pop chances are they'll pass it off as a random occurance. More than one light failure though and they might get suspicious.
If you want to break them for the excuse of the light bulbs blowing, its a viable option, and slingshots are what I'd go for. Compact, light and easy to use/carry around.

"If you can, mess it up in the day time do that, no one will notice."

No one will notice a light no being on if it was never on after sunset.

Messing stuff up during the day in preparation is definitely an option if it can be done safely. I'd say public areas apply for this. As walking around private corporations/government owned areas during daylight wouldn't be wise without a creative trick or two and and some excuse to be there.

Also, sometimes you have no choice but to move straight through a light up area, if there are no cameras and people, then they are no witnesses. Casually walking through such an area as apposed to piss-bolting through it, won't draw much attention to you.
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