Night Ops

This is very simple. If you can possibly find a recorded historical incident, police log, anything where someone has actually been killed or even significantly injured by any variety of man-made throwing weapon (stars, daggers, axes, etc.) post it here.

So far I have been able to find nothing.

The total recorded kill count of throwing weapons is: 0

Which makes me wonder why they're prohibited...

Xanatos wrote:Which makes me wonder why they're prohibited...

Perception would be my guess. I've even read a couple incidences where they were thrown at various people, including police, but there wasn't so much as a single injury. It's kinda like nunchucks, switch blades, butterfly knives, etc. Sure, you can kill someone with either of the three, but there are plenty of other legal items which are far more effective.

I think they should be legalized so more people have them because apparently, they're not even as effective as fists and might save lives if criminals try to fight with them...

And in the case of butterfly knives & nunchucks there's a greater chance of the attacker injuring themselves, so that's two birds with one stone.

AVE...

1. Someone throws a swiss knife at head of goalkeeper during a soccer match...
2. This one threw a kitchen knife at his neighbor...
3. Here we have a report about arresting of two drug dealers. One of them threw knife at soccer player wounding him severely few years before...
4. Drunken idiot tried to throw an axe at police officers, but he was so drunk, that he missed...
5. Some cases from my region: one man attacked two police officers with axe. One of them after firing two warning shots shot him in the leg. Man threw his axe wounding the leg and hand of police officer...

What I won?

Well... while weapons were mentioned, they weren't specifically throwing weapons and came down to more of a matter of chance.....

....

>_>



So the count still stands at 0.

AVE...

Cheating, Psych? Not nice...

Haha, well the entire point of the thread was to illustrate how generally worthless actual throwing weapons are after joking with a buddy of mine about it before making the post. It was a raw statistic, sarcastic way to basically say "Don't include throwing weapons in your kit". Yeah, there's always the chance that you can just throw a blade and make it stick but even a dead clock is right two times a day. Not something you want to depend on, you know? Even in your examples, there seems to have been only one injury that would stop someone from chasing you and no kills which is what the original post was asking for. How many crazy people have thrown a knife and absolutely nothing happened?

So in other words - and the forum seems to know better these days which is nice - don't bother with throwing knives, stars, chains, etc. You're just handing over evidence in my opinion for a very, very minor chance of helping anything.

In my opinion, no operative should carry any weapon that can't serve a dual purpose. Knives have a utility function, slingshots can be used to create distractions or eliminate light sources, etc. The only exceptions to this rule are bits of gear specifically designed for making a clean getaway from SHTF situations, like mace or metsu-bishi.

I tried opping with a set of throwing knives added to my standard kit for about a year, and i didn't end up using them once. I was thinking that they could be useful as a deterrent for wild animals, but obviously they weren't needed. I was spending quite a bit of time practicing with them (which is pretty fun), but even with an hour a day spent throwing, i still wasn't perfectly comfortable with them. Throwing knives don't really work like they show in the movies - you essentially develop "sticking distances" when you use them - specific distances where you know your knife will hit point first. naturally, there are gaps between different sticking distances, and estimating wrong by even as little as half a foot can cause your knife to "slap" the target, or hit sideways. Bottom line is that it takes a lot of practice and knowledge to make them stick with non-moving targets, and then only at specific distances. Trying to get a throwing knife to stick when you're hopped up on adrenaline and your target is moving fast would be almost impossible.

Now in my little foray into knife throwing, i learned about a different type of throw, called a "combat throw". It's vastly different from regular knife throwing, i think of it as being closer to a fencer's lunge. With a combat throw, you're not trying to control how fast the knife spins, like with regular knife throwing. You throw the knife in such a fashion that it doesn't spin at all, and flies straight through the air instead. This method of throwing is great for a couple of reasons - the first being that you don't need a throwing knife to use it. In fact, i've found that regular knives are preferred, the heavier the better. This is great because it lets you turn the knife you already carry (ANY type of fixed blade knife will work) into an emergency short-range projectile. Another upside to this throw is that it doesn't have a "sticking distance", it has a range, which will vary a little from person to person. Within your range, you know that your knife will always stick, no matter what the actual distance is. that range extends from point blank outwards, so when something is close you can make your knife stick every time, thrown as hard as you can, without having to think. I'm 5'10", and my range is right around ten feet, to give you an example. Obviously this is not a long range throw, but we've already proved that those are useless in a fluid, combat scenario. With a combat throw, i have no doubts that i can make my knife stick very hard, very fast into anything ten feet away, or closer. The nature of the throw is such that it doesn't require any thought, so unlike traditional knife throwing, it can be done reflexively. the throw is always done full-force, and allows you to put all of your weight plus a significant amount of leverage behind it. In short, a combat throw is exactly what the name implies - a type of throw you can do with a combat knife, in combat.

There are plenty of videos and guides for this on the internet, but it really isn't a complicated skill to learn. It is, however, the only type of knife throw even remotely applicable to night opping, and even then, it's a bit of a stretch. Sure, it's a great skill to know, because it applies to any fixed blade knife, but you'd only need to use it in a life and death situation - one where you wouldn't want to let an attacker close with you, like a dog or dangerous animal. It also fits well into Xanatos's dual purpose theory, because it gives you another use for a tool you already likely carry with you.

This video gives a pretty good tutorial on how to throw the knife as Therin describes, obviously larger knives are preferable for this kind of throw. This technique can also work with an underhand throw, allowing for a faster 'surprise' attack.

I agree completely with Psychlonic on this one. Throwing weapons may be fun to "play" with in the backyard and look awesome at the circus but they should remain at home for any serious op. Not only do you need to judge distance (more difficult at night ) but also likely hit a moving target. Jason Statham makes it look easy . . . and lethal . . . in his movies (The Expandables ) but the reality is very different. Something that is often overlooked is target penetration. Though throwing knives and Chinese stars stick well into pine wood targets, stray cats or telephone poles, they will bounce off of body armor, military web belts, police radios, chest rigs with rifle magazines, etc. If your target is a sleepy homeowner who exits his home to check out the reason for the dog barking, any sharp pointy thing thrown will likely cause him to run back into the home, but if you are planning on "taking out" a military sentry . . . plan again , or plan on something other than throwing weapons. Unless you are throwing crossbow bolts, arrows or lead.

I guess javelins aren't really in the spirit of the challenge?

Sure, if you've got an example of an individual throwing one into another person and seriously injuring them or killing them, we'll take it. Ancient javelin volleys are a bit out of scope however.