SCUBA divers??

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MustacheOperator
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SCUBA divers??

Post by MustacheOperator » Sun May 23, 2021 6:17 pm

Given the low cost of SCUBA equipment, do we have any divers here?

You can buy the gear from Amazon - full size tanks, wetsuit, fins, mask/snorkel, regulators, octopus and BCV will run around $1000. You can also use "spare air" or pony bottles for shorter duration dives.

There are considerable utilities for these: from stealth approach/escape, to avoiding overhead thermal imaging threats.

Thoughts?

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Re: SCUBA divers??

Post by Shadow Scout » Sun May 23, 2021 6:57 pm

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Last edited by Shadow Scout on Mon Jan 15, 2024 12:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

MustacheOperator
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Re: SCUBA divers??

Post by MustacheOperator » Sun May 23, 2021 7:14 pm

Shadow Scout wrote:
Sun May 23, 2021 6:57 pm
I think you are a little too advanced for most people on this forum. The typical op here involves getting out of the parents' house and sneaking into the neighborhood pool. I suggest keeping it simple, and don't assume too much technical knowledge or resources.
First thing I learned is never sell yourself short

You are capable of so much more than you think. Your body and mind can handle whatever you throw at it, provided you train, train and train some more. We will never rise to the occasion, we will always default to our training.

I have made tens of thousands of dollars doing various totally off the books operations, answerable to no one but myself and the two other individuals I occasionally bring in when I can't do it myself.

Obviously don't attempt a solo night dive before practicing in clear water, during daylight with a dive buddy dozens of times. Even then, keep it simple. It can be as simple as a tank of "spare air" carried on the hip. It lets you stay submerged for around 5 minutes. Add in a pair of fins and a mask and you've got a ready made escape plan - provided there is water nearby.

Practice knocking your mask off underwater, while still breathing through your mouth. Its harder than it sounds. Train for how COLD jumping in water is, even with a wetsuit, for the first few minutes. Practice drawing a knife while submerged, to cut yourself free if you ever get entangled. At the depths were talking about, the bends aren't an issue but practice a slow safe ascent anyhow. Practice builds muscle memory.

WE ALWAYS DEFAULT TO TRAINING UNDER STRESS!

FWIW, there does indeed seem to be several active high speed professionals here. I assume these concepts are neither foreign nor out of reach to them. And for others? Strive for excellence as an operator. Its an honor to take such a title. So live up to it.

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Sicarius
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Re: SCUBA divers??

Post by Sicarius » Sun May 23, 2021 7:24 pm

Shadow Scout wrote:
Sun May 23, 2021 6:57 pm
I think you are a little too advanced for most people on this forum. The typical op here involves getting out of the parents' house and sneaking into the neighborhood pool. I suggest keeping it simple, and don't assume too much technical knowledge or resources.
You realize you almost never have to use climbing gear or scuba gear right? Training your mind and physical skills are much more important than spending 10k on something you don't even need, or building some network of people for an apocalypse.

Overhead thermal imaging is an issue, but most people(including you Shadow Scout) have no need to worry about it nor have you fostered mediocre stealth skills. You can also just spend 300 dollars on a quality BDU and kind of solve the thermal problem, or spend even cheaper on a thermal "cloak" so to speak. Pro apto ghillie suits offer thermal+nvg protection, and you can pay for a full body ghillie suit for 1200 dollars and get more use than scuba gear.

You can "stealth" your way down a city road at night if you know what you are doing. I love expensive gear and stuff, but actually training the body and mind is more important and beneficial, especially for those of you who like to imagine being a superhero, evil ninja group, or even just not getting caught for higher difficulty crimes.

When I say most people have mediocre stealth skills at best, I mean that your skills are acquired from experience and shitty info from online. Information is just chaotic or false from most places, the worst being people referencing ninjas which are not even real in the sense that most of us imagine(cat burglar type, normal spywork is much more common)

Not trying to be rude, semi-apologies if I was

EDIT: The response after shadow scout was not there when I typed this. I try my best at operating, but I am 15 in a rather secure home so its kind of difficult at times.
"If one cannot be both, it is much better to be feared than loved" - Niccolo Machiavelli, The Prince

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Re: SCUBA divers??

Post by Nameless » Sun May 23, 2021 7:52 pm

While the chances of such a need of equipment seems slim and one struggles to see practical scenarios... why not at least explore this topic more?

My experience is limited to free diving and CO2 training. SCUBA has always been an interest and there are also great videos available on the internet showing how to create diver propulsion vehicles, repair older models for modern use and more. The average user here appears to be of limited resources indeed but walkthroughs for usage would be welcome anyway. Budget options and DIY builds can come shortly thereafter. Professional options are great of course but failing availability a tiered approach catering to different incomes could be created.

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Re: SCUBA divers??

Post by Xanatos » Thu May 27, 2021 12:19 pm

I'm not averse to using higher end equipment to tackle harder targets and SCUBA gear certainly opens up a lot of new avenues. I however have no experience in this area, but someone who owns SCUBA gear/has gone diving before may be able to chime in. How easy is it to remain hidden underwater? How easy is it to navigate in the dark? Can you remove SCUBA gear easily so it doesn't bog you down on the op?
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Re: SCUBA divers??

Post by Captain Winky » Sun Jan 30, 2022 3:24 pm

I haven't been on this forum for 10 years, but I've written a guide on Water-based OPS before, and I touched on Diving.
Did Tec in my early twenties, went for my dive master certification at 17:

It seems that, in the professional combat diving world, gear is ditched once you reach your destination, and also gets recovered on exfil.
I'm from a country that has a lot of water, and water that is murky and where visibility is terrible. For a diver, I'm -particularly- skilled at navigating purely on compass underwater because it's all I did every week for 12 years from 13 to 25 (and that still fucks me). I've also gotten into wrecks a lot, where subtle swimming is very important lest you disturb rust and blind yourself in a situation where you can't ascend directly, which is the number one killer when it comes to people croaking inside them.

Here is the thing with trying to do this stealthy: People will see the bubbles, you'll need to make shallow dives to prevent their expansion up to the surface to really disturb it. Any guard that has a habit of performing SLLS will likely hear it or see it lest he really isn't expecting someone to come from the water if you use basic open-circuit kit. Snorkels definitely make a very distinct noise as well, and you've got to clear them in case of emergency. With snorkels, you also swim so shallowly that your fins will disturb the water's surface, even if you're pretty good with the fine motor skills in the fins.

So you think you're smart, you think you're hot shit, you go for that commando gear and strap a closed-circuit rebreather to your chest. First of all, have fun getting the certification, that's a lifetime of diving before you get to that point, also, the scrubbing material used to filter CO2 out of your exhaled air is toxic. If you even so much as taste it on the air you will die. The machines have to be particularly well-maintained and it's most of the work. Understand that most infiltration through diving is done under entirely different parameters: Usually, the area will be cleared by the invading team afterwards, and even if they have to exfil all sneak-like, they are in a position to cover eachother gearing up if shit hits the fan. Use Night-Oppers don't usually have to get into situations where we might end up in a firefight, or look out for eachother.

*edit*: note that when military divers do this, it's either one of two things: This OP is going to be quick and dirty, they chuck on their rebreathers and they know they are going to fight cold, sopping wet, and they are going to have plenty of opportunities to warm up as soon as they resolve whatever situation they have to resolve, or they will also be wearing, donning, doffing, and stashing dry suits in that environment. There's no way to get those zippers silent, and usually, they make sure they infiltrate far enough away from the target to do this safely. If they're going to climb out of a moat right on top of the target, the point is to suddenly be there against all expectation, where the surprise is more important than the stealth.

Diving is a means to an end when it comes to night ops, and even in my land of water, the risks of scattering gear someone might find (which is a big no-no to the more skilled of us) The risks oftenly outweigh the benefits, and you very rarely end up in a position where there isn't a better alternative.

Also, I have never walked silently in sopping wet boots.
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Re: SCUBA divers??

Post by MustacheOperator3 » Sat Feb 12, 2022 12:52 am

*edit*: note that when military divers do this, it's either one of two things: This OP is going to be quick and dirty, they chuck on their rebreathers and they know they are going to fight cold, sopping wet, and they are going to have plenty of opportunities to warm up as soon as they resolve whatever situation they have to resolve, or they will also be wearing, donning, doffing, and stashing dry suits in that environment. There's no way to get those zippers silent, and usually, they make sure they infiltrate far enough away from the target to do this safely. If they're going to climb out of a moat right on top of the target, the point is to suddenly be there against all expectation, where the surprise is more important than the stealth.

Diving is a means to an end when it comes to night ops, and even in my land of water, the risks of scattering gear someone might find (which is a big no-no to the more skilled of us) The risks oftenly outweigh the benefits, and you very rarely end up in a position where there isn't a better alternative.
This sums up the reality of integrating SCUBA operationally

I have used it for reconnaissance purposes, but it was during daylight hours under the guise of recreational diving

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