Night Ops

As far as rope goes, I would HIGHLY suggest 550 Para-cord, (the 550 rating says it that one strand will hold up to 550 pounds) This is relatively cheap, light weight, and it has a multitude of uses. Para-cord also comes in a multitude of colors as well. Para-cord has saved my life on more than one occasion and I give it a 510% trust rating. You can usually find para-cord in any army surplus store or online. I get all of my para-cord from Camo Country. (100ft of rope costs me about $8.00)

I can attest to the strength of paracord, it will easily hold up a fully geared operative with no problems whatsoever. Provided the rope is secured correctly - wouldn't want a loose knot when you're 3 stories in the air! It's also useful for wrapping your kit (knife handles, etc) for better grip, protection or carrying options.

Lucian Neo wrote:As far as rope goes, I would HIGHLY suggest 550 Para-cord, (the 550 rating says it that one strand will hold up to 550 pounds) This is relatively cheap, light weight, and it has a multitude of uses. Para-cord also comes in a multitude of colors as well. Para-cord has saved my life on more than one occasion and I give it a 510% trust rating. You can usually find para-cord in any army surplus store or online. I get all of my para-cord from Camo Country. (100ft of rope costs me about $8.00)

Im also a vivid paracord user. But its HIGHLY suggested that people do NOT try to climb with it. Its good for making prussiks and for other climbing related things, but if you are doing more than going a few feet off the ground then dont substitute it for legit rope.

Nukes wrote:

Lucian Neo wrote:As far as rope goes, I would HIGHLY suggest 550 Para-cord, (the 550 rating says it that one strand will hold up to 550 pounds) This is relatively cheap, light weight, and it has a multitude of uses. Para-cord also comes in a multitude of colors as well. Para-cord has saved my life on more than one occasion and I give it a 510% trust rating. You can usually find para-cord in any army surplus store or online. I get all of my para-cord from Camo Country. (100ft of rope costs me about $8.00)

Im also a vivid paracord user. But its HIGHLY suggested that people do NOT try to climb with it. Its good for making prussiks and for other climbing related things, but if you are doing more than going a few feet off the ground then dont substitute it for legit rope.

I beg to differ about that. I've done plenty of climbing with paracord and it has never given me a single problem, Actual "climbing/spelunking" rope is going to be better suited for it, However, this can be expensive and very en-cumbersome and awkward to carry stealthily. Paracord is going to be smaller, More light-weight, Easier to hide, and overall stealthy as well as being trust-worthy. I do not do much climbing. However, when I do have to climb or repel down a wall, I trust paracord, I keep a minimum of 100ft with me at all time, I've also exchanged my boot laces for black paracord. While it is not "highly" suggested to use for climbing, you can always double it if you think it needs it. While I would not repel with paracord from more than 100ft, Anything below that would be practical. However be careful climbing/repeling with ANYTHING. No matter what you use, it is going to be dangerous.

not to sound argumentative, but I've never had any problem with my rope strong I mean I weigh roughly 160 pounds and my gear on the bigger ops ive been on (although i am relatively new to NO) weighed roughly 20-30 pounds so were lookin that my ropes got at least 190lbs in tensile strength it can carry the only down die is its rather rough and requires gloves

Highlander wrote:not to sound argumentative, but I've never had any problem with my rope strong I mean I weigh roughly 160 pounds and my gear on the bigger ops ive been on (although i am relatively new to NO) weighed roughly 20-30 pounds so were lookin that my ropes got at least 190lbs in tensile strength it can carry the only down die is its rather rough and requires gloves

Yeah, I'm almost 6ft and weigh around 250 pounds, And On I usually carry between a 30-60 pound ruck with me. (Weigh depends on the length of the trip and the operation) I've used 550 Paracord for plenty of repelling with me and my gear. (By the way, it's usually going to be the best idea to toss down your ruck, or slowly lower it down with the rope before you repel down yourself.)
To show the pure strength of 550 paracord, I doubled my rope and lashed the two strands together (It looked like a bigger, thicker, piece of rope) And towed a S10 pickup truck down the street with it. I will post pictures later if I can find any.

With that being said, I believe that paracord will hold my wait, and if your smaller than me (Which most of you probably are) then you should have no problem. If you don't want to carry, or can not afford, actual big bulky repelling, spelunking rope, Then Paracord is the way to go.

I've never had problems with 550 cord, although the most weight i've ever had hanging on it was roughly 200 lbs between me, my gear, and uh... some stuff.

It is possible to very easily stress 550 paracord beyond its design, causing it to snap. What many people do not understand is that, while you may weight only 175 lbs., the force exerted on a rope during climbing/rapelling is actually much greater, since you are bouncing up and down. Paracord should never be used to suspend a person in a situation where injury would result if it were to break. You should always assume that it'll break and think about what would happen if it did. Paracord is fine for attaching a hammock to a tree (not too high up) and other tasks where you might want to be suspended low to the ground but nothing more. Paracord isn't magic or a substitute for a quality climbing rope. Remember that safety is critical. Don't do anything stupid.
Now I want to make it clear again that paracord is not climbing rope and that you should never use it as such, in an emergency, I would quickly weave together three or four lengths of 550 paracord if I ever planned on using it to suspend myself. Even then, I would do everything I could to hang as gently as possible. However, this is only to be done in a life or death situation. Do not try this unless this is the case.
Yes, ive tested it with my 160lb self plus gear and it held in a gentle swing, but what if you fall or happen to bounce? your added weight from the static shock would easily put it near the brink, even for my light self.
(TL:DR, person with lots of climbing experience saying dont use paracord as primary climbing rope unless its a absolute emergency)

So how much paracord would be required to get an average person safely up or down a short distance, say roughly 40 or 50 feet? Perhaps a braid of three strands?

ThereIn: You mean average by american standards? Get a bloody tower crane...

Nukes wrote:It is possible to very easily stress 550 paracord beyond its design, causing it to snap. What many people do not understand is that, while you may weight only 175 lbs., the force exerted on a rope during climbing/rapelling is actually much greater, since you are bouncing up and down. Paracord should never be used to suspend a person in a situation where injury would result if it were to break. You should always assume that it'll break and think about what would happen if it did. Paracord is fine for attaching a hammock to a tree (not too high up) and other tasks where you might want to be suspended low to the ground but nothing more. Paracord isn't magic or a substitute for a quality climbing rope. Remember that safety is critical. Don't do anything stupid.
Now I want to make it clear again that paracord is not climbing rope and that you should never use it as such, in an emergency, I would quickly weave together three or four lengths of 550 paracord if I ever planned on using it to suspend myself. Even then, I would do everything I could to hang as gently as possible. However, this is only to be done in a life or death situation. Do not try this unless this is the case.
Yes, ive tested it with my 160lb self plus gear and it held in a gentle swing, but what if you fall or happen to bounce? your added weight from the static shock would easily put it near the brink, even for my light self.
(TL:DR, person with lots of climbing experience saying dont use paracord as primary climbing rope unless its a absolute emergency)

Nukes is 110% correct in the sense that it's not your weight that you want to be concerned about, but the force exerted through movement; so I would err on the side of cautio. Even with this in mind though, it probably is safe - but it's far from ideal.

Funnily enough, I'm looking at making a ladder utilizing Paracord. There is an awesome tutorial on indestructables for it; and I will most likely be weaving together 3 lengths of paracord to help strengthen it.

I personally use paracord for EVERYTHING that requires rope. You are entitled to your opinion, However I will go an make a video of me and my partner repel off the side of a building in full gear Just to prove my point. While yes it is NOT climbing gear, It is good to have around. And why the hell are you repelling from anything over 100ft? That just seems pretty unnecessary. and ANY repelling is dangerous and un-safe.

And lets just be realistic here. You are more likely to break whatever you are using for an anchor than to break the rope itself. If you are going to be doing ANY repelling you should ALWAYS check the anchor and the rope itself. I have done this before and to me paracord is light-weight, durable, and useful.

Let me just reiterate my point here, Paracord IS NOT climbing rope. It is not designed to be climbing rope. HOWEVER, (as a experienced spelunker/climber) Paracord is a good alternative for repelling off of a bulding or small ledge. It is in-expensive and long-lasting.

Moved Paracord discussion here - as it is well worth a thread of it's own! It has a million uses, and as has been mentioned; it's possible to use it as an inexpensive form of rope.

There are so many indestructables about paracord - but this is arguably one of the best; "Paracord Ladder w/ Wooden Rungs". I may give it a shot in my spare time this week, and test it out somewhere. One of these things would be incredibly useful.

Therin the Hand wrote:So how much paracord would be required to get an average person safely up or down a short distance, say roughly 40 or 50 feet? Perhaps a braid of three strands?

Honestly, I would just make me a good knot and put it around my anchor and tighten it so it doesn't come loose. This is good IF you are not planning on getting your paracord back.
Another way to do it (For lower heights) just wrap it around your anchor and hold each piece of cord and slowly let yourself down.

(TL;DR Get off your fucking lazy ass and read)

I figured I should inject myself into this conversation since Lucian is my partner.

I want to start by first saying that the "550" is the rope's tensile strength in pounds, that is, the maximum amount of weight that can be exerted on the cordage before it snaps.
Now, the problem I've found with any rope, is whether or not that includes the DWMF, or drop weight multiplication force. That is a term I created myself to describe how the weight of an object is multiplied when approaching it's terminal velocity during free fall.

An example would be lowering something on a strand of rope and while you're lowering it, you slip up and accidentally
drop it. When that object reaches the end of the rope, it's going to whiplash and it's weight is going to be instantly multiplied. How much is directly dependent on the weight of the object and the height of the drop. This is a weakness shared by any rope or cordage.

When 550 is double stranded, you now have a 1100 lb. tensile strength rope that is still small. I've been around a lot, and I have personally never seen anyone bounce up and down while rappelling, unless they're straight up doing it wrong. Rappelling is something done slow and precise, so no weight will be added unless you fall. Rappelling is also never something meant to be done in open air or to arbitrarily suspend yourself, it is meant to allow one to "walk" or "bunny hop" down a wall.
I also have climbing experience under my belt, and while I attest that it is not intended for rappelling, I have heard of Special Forces using it for that very thing, albeit not very often.
I've also noticed that everyone has one consistent worry, and that's falling. But I say again, rappelling period is something meant only for experienced users, regardless of what rope one may be using. So this is not a legit concern for somebody with a lot experience and practice underneath them.

Simply put. Double stranded paracord has a 1100 lb. tensile strength. If you snap that, you fucked up big time and should probably go home. That is merely a facetious way of getting the bigger point across; while not intended for it, it is not as dangerous as so many people proclaim it to be.

Thanks Neuro

]AVE...

Neuro, some calculations for terminal energy and velocity of falling object:

Vk is your terminal velocity
h0 is the height from which your object falls
g = 9.81 m/s^2 = 32.2 ft/s^2
Terminal energy:
Ek = mVk^2/2
m is your mass...

There's a video of a Physics teacher discussing this exact same topic on youtube funnily enough - he came to the conclusion that as any falls can multiply your weight by such an amount, you'd be best off doubling the cord over; which I think is something we're all in agreement with here. Furthermore, don't go swinging about on it - but I don't think that needs to be said.

I personally have a fuck load of static line that I can use for this kinda stuff; and I can also say I probably wouldn't be too happy using paracord - nor would a few of the guys I know. However, no one has claimed it's ideal - and I don't doubt for a second it would get the job done, just may add another layer of risk and possible complications.

See, normally I would say having a back up line is the best idea - but with paracord that's not possible, due to the fact that if your weight is suddenly transferred to a back up line of Paracord then you will break it; no doubt about that.

I think as a conclusion it's worth noting what Nukes has said - it will hold your weight and some equipment; that's undoubted, but if there is excess movement then you will snap it. Which is why it's not suited to this specific application, and isn't ideal or fully safe. However, as Neurotic_Anomaly has stated (and I think Nukes mentioned too) - if you're going to use it to hold your weight then double it over at least. Combined with going slow and minimizing movement I think this is the safest option if you must use paracord!

Hello guys,

I will also not recommend the use of 550# for rappelling and even less for climbing. But if you want to do it, it is your problem.
I just want to say 2 things:
-Knots make your rope less strong. A square knot for example, lowers the strength of a rope of ~50%. Keep that in mind if rappelling
-It's not for nothing that the lighter climbing ropes still hold 1600kg easily.

Last thing, after a few "hard" falls, it may be time to change the rope.

Yours,

Lopiben

Agreed, para cord is not meant for climbing and is incaple of holding any type of dynamic fall or stopping motion. Also, as loli stated any type of knot be it alpine butterfly, square, figure 8, or double fisherman can drastrically reduce the strength of said rope or cord. Para cord is fine for suspending something but is too thin for using any type of atc and hence makes it dangerous to rappel with. I've seen 11mm=burly thick rope cut in half easily while under tension, it's pretty scary shit. You can buy a 8.9 static rope for cheap and cut it to your desired size without worrying if this is going to be the day that cord breaks simply because you were to cheap to buy the proper gear.

Paracord is a great tool, but should not be used for climbing, ever. That 550lb rating is for shock, not constant tension. If you put more than about 100lbs on in for a sustained time you will damage and weaken it. A good thin climbing rope will work fine, and while expensive, is cheaper than medical bills. Paracord works great as a garote, tripcord, or to tie people up, just isn't for climbing.

While I have never used paracord for rappelling and would only do so in an emergency, one benefit of using rappel rope is that it would be easier to climb up the rope if needed. Paracord is much thinner and it would be very difficult to climb up it. I used to work for an ex-Navy Seal and we went rappelling once with his kids. One of his girls was rappelling and her hair somehow got caught in the rope. He scurried up the rope and got her hair loose ( I forget if he cut it or pulled it free), anyhow, I think it would have been very hard to do this with a paracord rope. Now it is uncommon to have to climb rope when you are rappelling but using rappel rope gives you that option.