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Shadow Scout
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Post by Shadow Scout » Mon Feb 20, 2023 11:41 pm

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Xanatos
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Re: Is this site dead?

Post by Xanatos » Tue Feb 21, 2023 8:33 am

I'm still here.
We are all books containing thousands of pages and within each lies an irreparable truth.
What is locked, can be opened. What is hidden, can be found. What is yours... can be mine.

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Re: Is this site dead?

Post by Shadow Scout » Tue Feb 21, 2023 9:19 pm

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Raven
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Re: Is this site dead?

Post by Raven » Wed Feb 22, 2023 11:26 am

What do you mean by "dead"?
People still post their stories and ideas here. I have a lot of OPs in my mind and I'll try to realize them when the temperature is somewhat normal in my area.
Btw I haven't seen Xanatos' stories for a while even though he comments pretty much everything.

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Re: Is this site dead?

Post by Xanatos » Wed Feb 22, 2023 12:34 pm

Busy with work, haven't been on any ops worth mentioning.
We are all books containing thousands of pages and within each lies an irreparable truth.
What is locked, can be opened. What is hidden, can be found. What is yours... can be mine.

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Re: Is this site dead?

Post by Psychlonic » Thu Feb 23, 2023 3:14 am

Honestly, yes.

But it's not a new thing. It's been "dead" since the mid-00s. It's not anyone's fault necessarily, things have simply changed. Humans by default tribal-mind toward anything they think will raise their status in some way, even if it's simply in their own mind. Back when night ops outgrew its &T origin, the forum was as active as chatroom, with users waiting online for replies and quickly adding new messages. The internet itself has changed dramatically since then. Now users seek to impress via social media, where the fringe is verboten. When NO was established, those of us who didn't fit in with our peers somehow found others as like-minded as us. We talked, we met up in person, we realized we weren't alone. Night ops wasn't just a skill, it was a family.

Today, forums like this are a relic. Sometimes someone will go out on a limb and sign up, hoping to find kindred spirits. But as you have probably seen, it happens less and less frequently as the years go on. Most old members move on. Most hang on tight to what little comfort they've managed to scrape together and don't want to risk losing it by doing something as daring as night ops. I think this is a bit of a tragedy. People like that still exist but we become farther and farther away as the years go by.

As for me, I've reverted to lurker status because I grew tired of trying to debate what I found was proven to those who were still obsessed with the theoretical. NO as a community is solidly locked into a phase people go through in life and seems unable to progress. The late Dark Kaiser, may he rest in peace, once said in frustration "It's like feeding caviar to cattle". While I don't share the anger over it, I eventually realized I don't have any good rebuttal anymore. Users outgrow the fad and move on.

Posts like this are even archaic, because I've posted this via PC. Most reading this will be doing so passingly via a phone while presumably killing time. Everything is on-demand now. The idea of cultivating an entire skill let alone lifestyle? It's just not there anymore. Those I see who ostensibly do are more interested in their own reputation than earnestly improving. I see people return hoping for recognition. I see grand stories. It's been a very long time since I've seen the camaraderie that once defined night ops.

To those this may offend, rather than take offense I ask you to carry the torch. I ask you to remember the curiosity that drove you into the night. The feeling of absolute freedom. Night ops in and of itself is not a bad thing and can absolutely be carried into the future. It's not "dying", it's been a shell of its former self for over a decade. How many people are out there just like you feeling alone? Bring them together again. Not everyone is meant to fit into "the system".

And look, don't use the community to fill the ranks of your agenda. You KNOW who you are and I know who you are too. I have no problem with you guys and what you're doing, but look beyond trying to be the grand schemer and think for one fucking second about the world outside of yourself. Everything you see and enjoy about this and people like us are endangered. How would you have felt if you'd never ran into this or other like-minded communities? Not many left, is there?

Curiosity is natural. Some are born with a mind more curious than others, I don't see that ending anytime soon. Stand beside them. Trust me, it'll be the best decision you've ever made in your life.
Knowledge alone is not power, it is the potential for power. That potential can only be unlocked through applying that knowledge and realizing the skill.

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Re: Is this site dead?

Post by Xanatos » Thu Feb 23, 2023 12:36 pm

Couldn't have put it any better myself.
We are all books containing thousands of pages and within each lies an irreparable truth.
What is locked, can be opened. What is hidden, can be found. What is yours... can be mine.

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Re: Is this site dead?

Post by cTrial » Sat Feb 25, 2023 5:25 am

I'm still here and actively trying to get my friend into the hobby. It definitely might as well be labeled dead. I always see about 20-30 guests online, so at least there are some newcomers or lurkers (who don't care to participate in the community) that are a constant. I think this site will always be a great resource for those inclined, whether the site is dead or alive.

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Re: Is this site dead?

Post by Xanatos » Sat Feb 25, 2023 4:33 pm

To be honest, this question has been asked for several years now. Several years. That alone should tell you we're still kicking.
We are all books containing thousands of pages and within each lies an irreparable truth.
What is locked, can be opened. What is hidden, can be found. What is yours... can be mine.

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Re: Is this site dead?

Post by V-S » Thu Mar 02, 2023 1:21 am

I've found this forum past it heydays, but I like that it's only a small dedicated group of people that will frequent it now. I'm sure I'll be here as long as it's up.

I do wonder if NightOps as a subculture is diminished. With an increasingly digital society younger people are quickly drawn to the latest trends through social media. As opposed to actually going out and exploring the real world. When I was young I was very much inspired by Splinter Cell and Metal Gear Solid to go out and practice stealth. I feel even stealth in today's video games is rarely done right.

Increasing affordable surveillance technology is also a factor I reckon, it's no long like the mid 2000s when I was most active.
The Sun is down, time to go to work.

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Re: Is this site dead?

Post by basewatcher » Mon Mar 13, 2023 8:58 pm

Mustacheoperator checking in

Mustacheoperator is actively evading federal law enforcement

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Re: Is this site dead?

Post by Seraphim » Sun Mar 19, 2023 3:24 pm

This thread topic hit me right in the conscience.

This is my first time logging in for at least four years. I hadn't at any point totally forgotten about the forum or night ops in general, but life is life and shit happened. I make no excuses for this. My moving away from N.O. was to my detriment. We can debate all day about ethics, what level of intrusiveness or damage to property is acceptable, so on, so forth, but at the end of the day, N.O. is a salubrious hobby that builds character and reenforces (at least for me and in my worldview) the principle of "you might not can fight authority/the system, but you can sidestep it," which is very much in keeping with the spirit of the historic ninja.

I'm not absolutely insisting that all sources of enjoyment must have some higher utilitarian purpose- if you enjoy vidya and movies, go ahead- but aside from doing ops for the sake of the art and the sake of enjoyment, I think there's something really grand to be said about a "hobby" that-

-Demands a not-unrealistic but very definite level of physical fitness, but does not enthrall one to the horde mentality of competitive sports. During my hiatus from ops I plunged into alcoholism and heavy weed smoking, became borderline obese, and have had to struggle against all these things in the time since.
-Reenforces my above-mentioned idea of "sidestepping the system/collective," in that N.O. not only gives you confidence in your ability to live this idea, but also lets you put it into practice. The psychological- and, dare I say, "spiritual"- benefits of this are enormous.
-Keeps you away from bad habits. If you're deeply into N.O. and do it with any level of frequency, it demands you not only live a healthy lifestyle, but dictates a certain pattern of behavior in your "off-duty" time, such as keeping a low profile, being determined in most things, avoiding criminal charges, and tons of other things which, if not followed, could reduce your ability to perform ops.

Sorry for being long-winded. I'll fully admit that I was preaching to myself.

Glad to see all you guys again. I'm back to stay, God willing.

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Re: Is this site dead?

Post by Shadow Scout » Sun Mar 19, 2023 8:55 pm

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Intruder
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Re: Is this site dead?

Post by Intruder » Fri Apr 14, 2023 2:35 pm

It's the same as anything, lots of this forum is open net. Between closed chats, smaller localised chapters and the dominance of urbex stealth being a more easy mainstream way to gain attention for those looking for that, there has been a lot of crackdowns security wise. It's hard because most people who do stuff don't want to self publish 'content' while much of the userbase is actually employed and doing things that get the bread. There's also a lot of other subcultures that I wont name for fear of flooding them with the military larpers who think htey can namedrop techniques and be qualified. That can put off a lot of people if they come on over and see something absurd in chat or on posts. It's definetely dormant more than dead. Seasons effect a lot of it especially for the non Americans here.
The vice of global CCTV, thermals and ring cams in built up areas has really knocked a lot of stuff out.
At the start of the year stealth techniques 2 channels were self nuked as well. A shame to be sure. I would binge his stuff a lot. End of the day like all subcultures, don't cry about the culture, become the culture. This is one thing that doing will revive it on it's own. If you're worried about it dying, then don't stop doing it. Find the others. I just happen to spend my time with a lot of rural friends, no interesting urban structures and some of the really cool places I've been are doxxy as hell. So that's a part of it. All of that said, the kids are getting smarter and that means not posting stuff on opennet a lot. Social media fatique had taught a few of the next gen how bad things get.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7ZmELT5toE For a laugh check out this funny guy.
TL:DR It's dormant not dead. If you want to see it revive, do it.

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Re: Is this site dead?

Post by Intruder » Fri Apr 14, 2023 3:01 pm

Psychlonic wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2023 3:14 am
To those this may offend, rather than take offense I ask you to carry the torch.
Even if it looks like less is happening, Psychlonic I want you to know that between you, Xanatos and most of the old guard here that there is in fact a whole next gen. It's just a bit more Persec oriented. If I can get them to do stuff more regularly I will direct them here.

Also sorry for double post but I wanted to respond especially to this. First things first always Thank You. What you have helped to curate and keep here reminds me less of abandonware pages or broken sites, but something closer to what I imagine Speer would call a product of Ruin Theory. The idea that something even when broken down and decrepit can have a magesty all of it's own. This place reminds me, at least socially of how it feels to stand and look at old roman ruins in overgrown woods.

You look at them and rather than think "Oh that's terrible, what a disgusting ruin" you instead think "So much has come before me, it must have looked amazing back in the old times." That's how I see this place, a wonderful signpost of the past that inspires far more than it could ever have ruined. Sometimes I will go through old threads and get a nostalgia for stuff I wasn't even around for.

A long time ago I started doing the same thing, in a totally difference place for totoally different reasons. I'm older now and have more time to do what I want to and pushing back into the dark has been one of the best revivals of old freindships, habits and fitness that if it weren't for here I might have lost. The fact is that even without the guidance, people find thier way back to a similar place. It's important to remember that this place is not the only place. Because of that I think not only are there still practicioners, but a whole new gen of people getting out there at night. I myself have 6 good freinds spread across 3 states, we make time for it and make a point of working out, doing the gear tip thing and given much of the hunt culture here a lot of it comes in handy too. The point is that people are still out there, still doing this.

You know how in comics there used to be a golden age a silver age etc? Well right now we're in something of an Iron age. It's roughter around the edges, it's all secret lost art and hardest to find but those that are looking are finding themselves pushing further, trying despite the odds, the CCTV, the new laws, the restrictions on accosiation and the ongoing social and physical police state that has had a big impact on people trying to just make it to the next day. I feel this is the pressure that will make diamond more than it will ever be an ocean swallowing a candle.

I think one of the biggest things for me personally was the new year happened, Stealth Technique deleted his stuff and I realised that I woudln't be able to show anyone that stuff instantly anymore. To not have something to point to and say, Hey, this is something that is done, there are methods, a culture and a community with a history.

I'm not going to stop. In fact I'm going to find more people and make sure this never dies.
With that small batch gone to the overt net, I have never felt more obligated to not just carry the fire but to remember that old saying
"From one candle, many flames."

I just wanted to let anyone who might be reading know that if ever there was a time to get out there and revive this even further, it's now.

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Psychlonic
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Re: Is this site dead?

Post by Psychlonic » Sat Apr 15, 2023 2:26 am

Secant is the man to thank, without him operatives would be scattered to the winds even more. As far as shutdown concerns I can't speak for him, but last he'd spoken on the subject he said that he continues to maintain the site out of a fond nostalgia for the stories. Those continuing to share their experiences here are who keep it going. Continuing your candle analogy, it is indeed the candles that keep the site alive.

Hard to weigh in on how to go about revival efforts. You'll find years of me whining in the 'Suggestion Box' in vain over the matter. While some of us older members may still be around it's essentially your community at this point. You'll have to balance ease of access to newcomers and security for members who want to share their stories. How you go about all of that is up to you guys and I hope you succeed.

As for me, it's weird to say but I feel like an outsider now in a community that was once so important to my identity! That's probably the main reason I keep quiet if we're being honest. That, and I don't feel like I can offer information in a format that's particularly better than content already out there. YouTube was nothing like it is today when NO was conceived but today it's a fucking motherload of quality information. Sure you've got guys like Stealth Technique on there for inspiration but for raw info now there are several channels where you basically have unconventional warfare manuals being shown in how-to video format. Including just movements obviously. While I find text is great for supplementary info that just isn't available anywhere else, if the same information is presented in video format I find that to be a far more efficient way to learn.

Aannnddd the likelihood of me going on camera to create content is basically zero. Simply, I don't feel like it.

Since practicing and developing skills - sometimes equipment - is mostly all I do these days there's not much to talk about. I've reached the point where any site I deem worth exploring is a huge road trip away but I've got all my normal life shit going on as well. It's just a pain in the ass for what ends up being a bit disappointing more and more often. The skills and mindset will always be interesting to me like all fringe subjects, because why not? It's a feeling of freedom and empowerment.

Not meaning to make any of this about me, but I suspect many members who've moved on feel much the same. Nobody wants to be the weird old guy slumming around the younger generation lol.
Knowledge alone is not power, it is the potential for power. That potential can only be unlocked through applying that knowledge and realizing the skill.

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Intruder
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Re: Is this site dead?

Post by Intruder » Sat Apr 15, 2023 9:01 am

Yeah secant especially. I just haven't seen a recent post is all.
The thing is youtube is also becomming kind of a wasteland of bad info and outdated info as well. Not to mention censorship and doxxing habits of the average risk taker are up. Way I see it anyone can make 2 or 3 good freinds and set a date. All you need is time, a date and to pick a place. Reflect, reorient and retry. I think nowadays there are more people so it's just a matter of finding others and being available. When you find peripheral subcultures like Urbex or function oriented stuff like LEO work, Military that's where it tends to become less about the interest and more about the utility. Comes with baggage.

I think a lot more people who would get into this are out there, it's just that with Reddit being a cesspool, and the pervasive all seeing eye vibe a lot of social media has people are more scared to start. But that's where I think it's important that you find a few good people and make it into a habit. The thing is the harder society clamps down the easier it is to find others who tend to not be a square peg for the round hole.

When all else fails I think the most important thing to do is reduce it to the most fundemental basics. Elemental stuff like "I want to sneak into a place. I have gone and checked it out in daylight. I have a friend who needs experience. We will go on wednesday" Then simply gear out and get out. I think one of the big things with Nops is that the first time you take someone with and they realise that they can do this anytime, nearly anywhere, it becomes a sort of critical moment. Like the first time you pick or bypass a lock or get away from somene who is trying to find you. There are real milestones that if fostered can become important building blocks for a passion.

I like to frame things as SHTF skills even though I think that will never happen. Or taking a basic fitness habit and gamifying it with a fun side hobby. Take other interests and just apply them in the dark. This is my personal vector. I wanted to be able to evade people in dangerous situations at night, so going thrugh houses or buildings was my "Getaway no matter what" habit. For my friend it was wanting to go home via tresspassing land he was not supposed to. Things like that.

I know I'm not giving up on this ever. Rain or shine. All I know is if I can enjoy it, then I know for a fact there are others out there waiting to still be discovered and given a hand. I think a big part of that is that most people don't have a name to put to the habit or the hobby. The fight club model applies pretty well. That's how I go about it anyway.

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Re: Is this site dead?

Post by Mr. Edgyman » Sat May 06, 2023 2:13 am

Intruder wrote:
Sat Apr 15, 2023 9:01 am
When all else fails I think the most important thing to do is reduce it to the most fundemental basics. Elemental stuff like "I want to sneak into a place. I have gone and checked it out in daylight. I have a friend who needs experience. We will go on wednesday" Then simply gear out and get out. I think one of the big things with Nops is that the first time you take someone with and they realise that they can do this anytime, nearly anywhere, it becomes a sort of critical moment. Like the first time you pick or bypass a lock or get away from somene who is trying to find you. There are real milestones that if fostered can become important building blocks for a passion.
Yeah, my big revelation moment was finding Stealth Technique's YouTube channel and thinking "Yeah, now that I think of it, stealth is one of the few video game things that provided you do proper preparations there is a significant chance that you can get away with it without any problems", but I still lacked the confidence to actually do it, some time later I went on a night op with a friend and with that I got the confidence that I needed to go out on my own.

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